Josephides: 'I'm proud of not always having followed the fold'

However, far from his legacy being one solely of promoting new and sustainable tourism, Josephides’ advocacy work with Aito, of which Sunvil was a founder member, and latterly as chairman of Abta and the Travel Foundation, has seen him lead the fight for a better, more fairly regulated industry.

“Aito’s fought a lot of battles and we haven’t won all of them,” he says. “We campaigned against the takeover of Horizon by Thomson; we fought to make sure VAT in Tour Operators Margin Scheme (Toms) was implemented properly. The one we’re fighting at the moment is with the non-UK operators coming in after the new Package Travel Regulations.”

“The industry approaches Abta in fear. We've scaled some of that back... I think the message now is we're there to help, not judge”

- Noel Josephides

Josephides has chaired Abta since 2013 and his six-year term will end in July. “I wanted to soften the interaction between the industry and the association. In the past, it was all about ‘what’s Abta doing for me?’,” he tells me.

“In fact, Abta does a hell of a lot. It’s extremely efficient and it knocks spots off any other trade organisation in Europe, if not the world, in my opinion.

“Often, the industry approaches Abta in fear. We’ve scaled some of that back. When you have people coming in who’ve had a bad year, made mistakes or misunderstood regulations, I think the message now is we’re there to help, not judge. And if I’ve helped to do that over the past six years, I would consider that quite an achievement.”

I ask Josephides if he has a crystal ball among the many trinkets that adorn his office, picked up during his five decades in travel. “The airlines control tourism now, not the tour operators,” he muses. “That’s the biggest change. They set the trends.”

Josephides believes Jet2.com and Jet2holidays “would appear to have got things right” and says their emergence over the past year as part of the “big three” shows there is still room in the market yet for the likes of easyJet Holidays.

“Very few airlines have managed to run successful tour operations,” he tells me. “The airlines’ needs always come first, not the tour operator. EasyJet could change that... Jet2 is different because the airline and the tour operator started around the same time; the tour operator wasn’t an after-thought. They seem to have got it right.

“The airlines control tourism now, not the tour operators. That's the biggest change. They set the trends”

- Noel Josephides

“But you do have to ask yourself, once Jet2 feels confident enough, why wouldn’t they walk away from agents? Tui UK is far more profitable than Tui in Germany. Tui in the UK is vertically integrated, whereas Germany is still a traditional model paying agents commission.

“I think the next stage is when Tui and Cook feel Jet2 have gone too far. I think they’ll react. Thomson fought ILG and Airtours – those were interesting battles. But when you get to the size these three are, you get in fights. And these fights are always bloody because it’s all about price.

“When that happens at the top, it affects all of us because people’s perception of what they’re paying for a holiday changes completely. It’s bad enough as it is, let alone having a capacity war on your hands as well.”

Encouragingly, though, Josephides believes there is still huge scope for smaller, specialist operators with reputations built solely on quality, and similarly opportunities for more specialised agents moving into luxury long-haul and cruise.

But what of Josephides’ own future? “I’ve tried to step back as much as I can because, well, I’m 70,” he smiles. “I have to let them [Sunvil] get on with it, but I’m not someone who gives away these responsibilities easily.”

It seems despite Josephides’ plans to wind down, we’ll be hearing plenty more from him.